if you wake up we will see you tomorrow. ♪ john: it is the season >> it is the season of giving so where should you give? >> what about this man. >> thank you. >> the government must spend more. >> social security will reduce poverty. >> but does government really help the pool? oo by management this isn't, woulding. >> more people figure that out. even the singer bono. >> commerce, entrepreneurial capitalism takes it out. >> if you are waiting for the

government you are going to be in for an awfully long wait. >> if they get it maybe soon more people will realize there are better ways to get it. >> that's our show tonight. >> what is real charity? >> people are in trouble after disasters or simply when people are poor. they think how can government help? is who mr. help those people if not government? they argue private charity would step in individuals freely choosing to help. but would enough of us help? thaits why liberals news day columnist says when it comes to helping the needy that is mostly government's job?

well, listen, it would be great if people reached into their hearts and solved all of these horrible problems we have. history teaches us that it exists that you and i weren't enough. >> politicians said they weren't enough but we could do better i would argue if government didn't take so much money the private sector would take care of it. >> social security came along and medicare and now all of the people really do comparatively fairly well. before food stamps we had hungry kids spread aout across america. those numbers were cut traum mattedcal -- dramatically by th. >> they are trillions in debt unsustainable. >> maybe we have to tweak them, but you can't throw away the idea.

it is the reality that we need government in there, too. >> food starches a couple billionaires could fund the whole food stamp program by itself. a private charity would be better at saying who needs the food health and who is scamming the system. >> if you know a billionaire who would want to pay the entire system we would welcome about a. that. >> they don't step in because the government is there. they say government does that. >> i think the reality is in real life all of these private efforts are really important. we are generous people. we give a lot of money. when the chips are down the big thing happens when the typhoon hits the philippines they don't have an aircraft carrier with marines on board and rescue helicopters. the u.n. military dol tear -- u military does. i want them there when the typhoon hits. >> i don't know what's going to happen in the philippines.

we promised billions of dollars but a billion hasn't gotten there. they were going to build 15,000 homes fewer than 3,000. >> if you argue government sometimes doesn't do a perfect job. >> usually, always. >> i want to show a clip of a disaster face based charities were better than fema and then there's the wait, this is brian will am yeahs talking about the tornado in moore, oklahoma in may and 30 churches banned together and did it more quickly than the government. they were turning away people trying to get water. they were sending the water to the wrong place. >> i am a native of new orleans.

there's some things the privates do well all of the kids and wonderful young people who came down and church groups they did something much better than government but there were still an awful lot of feelings we needed a government. we saw how they were slow to get there. no one said stay away they said get here quicker. >> in wal-mart could be nam nimble. i don't think you want the government to take a pass. >> i do. but let's talk about the war on poverty. lyndon johnson said he would end poverty. here is where the war began. sure enough it dropped sharply the first 5, 7 years after that. but then it stopped improving. we taught people government programs teach people to be dependent. look what was happening before

the war on poverty. americans were lifting ourselves. >> we should have been more helping the government. >> government doesn't teach dependency? >> i am not sheer saying government is perfect. 2k3w069ment has bad things it is clumsy and bureaucratic and has waste and corruption in it but i am saying there are things that the privates do well. am -- can we put this up. the rise of foot. people. it has the number of people collecting the lowers last

glance what's the solution. >> we should limit the programs and let the private sector step in. one more example is the rise of disability payments to people. straight up so you have got fewer people doing manual labor, medicine is better and more people are disabled. >> i got to tell you. agreenlt is one thing. you want to get rid of it. we could look closely at all of the applications. there's government office supposedly to help people find jobs. i went there i looked at jobs. people have to get welfare here. we went around and within a couple hours found 40 job offers 28 entry level positions. one restaurant owner said i would hire a dozen people if

people would just apply. >> how many would come with no experience? >> i would probably take nine and train them. >> at the welfare office people told us there's no jobs. >> no there are plenty of jobs. >> these government jobs offices encoura encourage people to take welfare. i -->> it is much smarter to have ladiness. >> private varieties know who needs a push and who needs help. the answer can't be cut back? >> cut it back and invite the private sector in. >> we will stop there. thank you. the now i say private charities should replace government in this country. what about the rest of the world. people assume global poverty is

they gave out an a and the u.p. ton krau dicks they can end poverty in two years. while. two years. of course 50 years ago lyndon >> wow, two years. the u.n. will do better? ted turner gave them a billion dollars for this, individual governments squandered nearly a trillion dollars in foreign aid trying to lift people out ofafr. i say squandered because thags when they left the 2 until -- they have government heel for the rest of the month. what's the alternative.

make el say. > translator:ers from you directly to them. no middleman no leak waj owe hick up. you have a charity you raised $6,000. given twenty-some,000 people cash. >> 1,000 each a spend it and they won't have if. you are not the only one. the truth is there has been a decade of research that shows it's happening. we have the old expression teach a man to fish. the truth is in a lot of these places they don't have pushifis poles. >> you allow them to buy a fishing pole or in this case he mate have used a motorcycle.

>> he bought it with cash and provide packs services. >> you give the people a cell phone with the why is that? >> that's how we transfer the money. if they don't have a fun they won't be able to get the money. >> easier to check with them. >> people built metal roofs. there is no charity to do it. clean water less malaria, et cetera. they didn't at ththink of it we. >> before they had the middle roof it durns down 222 it falls. another person received triening to do welding. >> he didn't have welding equipment now he does. >> what makes you think this

works? >> we don't need to think. we have a decade of evidence. we have done our own third party evaluation of our program. we know income goes up dress level goes down and hunger falls and the list goes on and on. >> you do another odd thing for a charity. none of the boredom ins fork l full-tim full-time. >> you could be mer more honest. >> i think people have passion and awesome. >> i criticize government programs because they don't teach people to take care of themselves. i guess giving cash once and knowing it won't teep coming is different. it doesn't matter who does it, it matters what they do.

been let them make the voice. we have you not be making this. >> thank you mick ma'am . >> coming up president obama says the way to help poor people is to give them a free cell phone [ male announcer ] introducing new fast acting advil. with an ultra-thin coating and fast absorbing advil ion core™ technology, it stops pain before it gets worse. nothing works faster. new fast acting advil. look for it in the white box. ♪ new fast acting advil. [ female announcer ] can you heal a broken heart with a bundt cake?

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♪ >> the government will pay for you to have a kree cell phone -- free cell phone. >> yipee a free cell phone. they need a lifeline. make calls in an emergency. this is a government program that began when ronald reagan was president. president obama expanded it of course and bingo in four years the costs tripled. it will continue to rise because people love their obama phone.

>> is that an obama phone? >> yes, everybody in cleveland minority has obama phone. he gave us the phone. >> how did you get a phone? >> low income you disability. >> the more free stuff you get the more you are eligible to get. let's assume someone checkd it see if your. you know what it is. >> i went to the quell fair offices. there are people on the streets saying hey do you have frur free phone yet. >> outside of the office. >> that's right. i am not on welfare. i told them i would like to be on welfare. i am sure a lot of people po

what i wopay for it. >> first off you are not supposed to have duplicate phones which i have already broken that rule. they are also supposed to check eligibility. they didn't cap it at one time that i had multiple applications in and tried to work my way through the system again and again. >> the audit says 91 percent were not eligible. >> thaeg about 6 million. the phone companies have a perverse incentive to push the phones. they get 9.99 pr customer per months>> we should explain there's something called a universal service charge. make sure everybody had a phone

line. universal service. a buck or two out of everybody's phone bill -- >> goes to fund this program. most taxpayers do knee it. i didn't know what the bill was. >> the phone companies are the bad guys in this. this is a huge business for them. track phone which is owned by carlos clinton the mex an billionaire one of the richest people in the world. >> he may be the richest in the world. >> he got in 2011 alone half a billion dollars from this program. i think you see what turned out to be well they're it is plain and simple. what about -- >> maybe justification for a land line that's what the program started out as. any incentive to go over pulp

ams and yooefr site. that's what we have mere. >> it doesn't show everybody's it's government money. the more they give out the more they get to keep. you have too commission. $2 billion. two billion. the ned carr nod kayed, he was spent $20 million la, yacht, luy cars. one after the other all of which he got because government paid millions of medical treatment. 2k3w069me government health is just extra acceptable abuse. >> i was surprised i was able to get three of them in violation

of pretty much every program rule. if i can do it being skb who is at the times the truth. image the people -- the opportunity is great. >> private companies get ripped off, too. but they have more of an incentive to check their own money. >> georgia is doing reforms within the state to try to see if they can mess with that fundamental frauz they were going to thwart less likely to get three or four different oese they don't need. >> coming up, better ways to help people. ♪ stick with innovation. stick with power.

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♪ john: one of the richest people in >> one of the richest people in the world is warren buffet. he is one of many billionaires who gave his money to charity. he said he would give it away when he dies. his fellow billionaire ted turner told me he was being chief. >> you should give some away now. >> turner made a big splash by giving a billion dollars to the u.n. now he wanted to shame other rich people into giving more. >> what he says is stupid. >> that was businessman tj rogers about turner's bragging about his u.n. gift. >> he should take his money and invest it and can't help any better way than to invest it and have the companies and buildings and plants created with this investment create jobs and health of products for other people. >> really? is it better if a money maker uses his money to make more rat? i through the question back to

ted turner. >> if bill gates says i am good at making money -- >> i tried to argue this to ted turner. >> i am happy bill gates gives nothing to charity. >> you are just another -- this is why people don't like news men. i am a newsman, too. i know your dirty tricks. there's nothing more to say. i am walking off the set. >> since he didn't want to talk about it let's take the same question to economist ben powell. he runs the free market institute of texas tech. ben? >> i am not bothered if they give more of it away they give money by making our lives better. often that's the best way they can go about helping people>> when they make a prophfit and he people they live on it for years

educating their kids and feeding their family. they are good at making money i think they should stick to what their specialty is. >> it is not about the motives that's about the results of it. when they are pursuing a profit it does the things to benefit others. the real reason is for them reating a product and service that makes our lives better but they also make jobs that make better people off. this is the best way to go about making society better. it is responsible for the high standard of living we enjoy in this country. >> yet most of them i would say don't feel good about all of the wealth they create in their business. and they built il-- guilt illy give charity. even bill gates is, woulding full-time on charity. he has done so much to make our lives better with his company and his charity. he says he thinks most charity has to come from governmentedment. >> a lot of the money that is supporting these causes is

coming from the private sector from people like you and lesser from government. >> governmentments are the backbone of this. >> no, bill gates has it all wrong. he is good at computers not good at social policy. last week i had a research paper presented at any seminar series about the great chicago fire of 18971. it was private charity and civil society organizations that banded together to help them get out of their homes. better than fema ordering people where they can and can't go and botching the whole process. >> a recent addition -- edition of forbes magazine that featured philanthropy, they are now rating billionaires by how much they give and kind of warmed my heart. it was great. let's have a competition among the absurdly rich people on

helping others. >> there is nothing wrong with giving to charities. some of this can come from this segment of society. it is fine to recognize that longs swe don't demonize the ones that don't do it. >> there are tycoons like john d. rockefeller people who vilify them saying they did charity work but they were evil robbers. >> no. they fundamentally transformed the lives of americans. rockefeller is probably responsible for saving the whales he pushed down the profit enough it was no longer profitable to hunt down whales.

d it didn't matter his motive was profit. he made automobile affordable for middle class americans who would never have the opportunity to do that before. the same is true for the robin bearers. >> thank you ben powell. up next. are you ready to freeload? if i put on a fake beard and beg on the streets, will people give me money?

>> it is a foolish policy and it will come to an end the soon per the better. >> that's ron paul talking about the millions we spend on foreign aid. much of which is squandered or stolen p. i agree with ron paul that we should stop almost all foreign aid. but when libertarians say that

people get angry. >> you want to cut it off, pull the aid out. we give less than one percent of the entire budget of the united states of america. >> it is pretty close to 1 percent. $35 billion. i say we can't afford that. gregory adams who runs aid effectiveness program says we should spend more. it is a giant charity that tries to fight poverty all over the world. you raise the money leave governments out of it. >> the issue john is that there are some things charity just can't do. despite the impact that it has around the world, and we are proud of the work that we do with money raised from average americans there is only so much we can do with our own projects. >> they made to make sure they

aren't murdered on the way they are going. 30 percent of the money are foreign aid. why when so much is squandered? oo there are some things. they are not a good news of money. we radios af americans we are delivering food itself and buying food in the stores and local farmers. >> there are good programs things like the mel len yaw challenge that finds the best fer forming country he is rather than sup dieing failure we want

to see more aid help farmers grow more food. we want to have aid in good governing efforts in this country. >> what are the odds that that will happen the aid supports the corrupt dictators? the new york times says much of the food is directed to militants and local u.n. staff. >> it is a different environment. gym bob way authorities confiscated trucks and handed it out for supporters of the president at the political rally. >> the only cool you have a 8 bags of food. >> calling for more government said you are calling for more of the aid that despite all of the promises of reform has ended up in the hands of corrupt

dictators. >> we are not just calling for more government aid. >> i understand that. they are gog great work. >> one of the biggest misconceptions is most u.s. assistance goes to government. most u.s. assistance goes to u.s. based charities ngo's and contractors. >> and the u.n. which sometimes -- >> there's a portion that goes to the u.n. we are clear the u.n. is not the solution to poverty just as aid is not the solution to poverty. people are the solution to poverty. >> he runs business of america now but she tried operating her business in the home country. you listen to greg, you agree combination. foreign aid, government would help? >> i have a very hard time with foreign aid. the african union itself is admitting that the $148 billion are being stipend through corruption every year.

>> sprys bank accounts? s>> swiss bank accounts fancy real estate south of france and a dictator was busted by french customs. it was found 27 fancy cars i don't know how many 7 fir ar res bentleys rolls-royces. >> i would think the only way to stop that is keep government out of it. you can get a bunch of people who want to give their own money, they won't give it to dictators. >> not all governments are the same first of all. we actually work with a lot of anti corruption and human rights activists who are working to try to get their government to governor accountbly. they are interested in the u.s. standing with them and joining this fight. too often we take such an approach it u.s. assistance. we focus so much on avoiding corrupti

corruption. these activists want us to stand and fight corruption. >> we want to be there standing in solidarity. oo too why don't you need government aid? >> why? because governments are the only tools that can work to sol vr some of these accountability problems. it is like asking why do the bears need an offensive line just because the linemen don't score any touchdowns. it will be entrepreneurs whoed the problem of african poverty but you need government to do things entrepreneurs can't do. >> you need government aid? >> in most countries in africa government has been the problem. they basically get in the way. enter paren newers government does nothing but slow me down on a regular basis. there are officials bribing me all along the fact that my truck gets stopped on a regular basis from point a to point b making its way. then i have to pay every single time in the delays.

>> government aid will help fight the corruption? >> the more you feeding this huge government, the more you are choking me on the other end. that is phenomenon but i am a witness of and i have to live through every day. the more you give to them the more what happens to me on the ground. >> we think there's a role that government can play. a lot of places that we work we find there's a government deficit. there's a lock of security. there's a lack of basic services. people don't have clean water. people have to deal with>> why do you believe government 789 aid would help that. >> there are a lot of success stories in africa. there are a lot of african countries seeing huge strides. >> coming up why a man came up to me on the street and said, are you john stossel? yes. i hope you die soon.

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♪ john: someone once came up to me on the street in new york and

said, are you john stossel? has said the spd said to my hope you guys in. so what is this hatred about? it turned out he was what people call and anti-poverty lawyer and did things like sue landlords to stop them from evicting people. in his world here in new york capitalism is the enemy, and the only thing that keeps poor people from being totally impressed his government. so because i call for less government and evil. this town, we libertarians are selfish people. and a good guy is called a bleeding heart liberal. so what is this website about? bleeding heart libertarians. talks about social justice and free-market. georgetown university philosophy professor regularly contributes to the site. why? >> the idea is to recapture the

soul of libertarianism. what they can and should do is embrace the concept of social justice. john: what does the phrase even mean? i am for social justice. >> right. john: for a lot of people it does not mean anything. it just means socialism. there is a real meaning. course of institutions that you expect other people to live by. john: laws, property rights, family rules come anything like that, one of the tests of those institutions should be that you expect when people live and abide by them attend to produce good consequences for everybody. you can show whether you care about this by asking a question like this. imagine that marxists were right. imagine there were a disaster, they left the overall majority of people destitute. would you still advocate markets?

i think most libertarians would say i would at least have so the fact that markets work o matters in their justification. if you think that you advocate whether you know it or not what philosophers are calling social justice. >> iran said i do not consider charity a major virtue or a moral duty. >> wh that is selfish. >> what she means by selfishness is not what most people mean. i think most libertarians are humane they give to charity they care markets work and work for everybody to the minimum wage. if you think it mattered that it hurt the poor why would you argue it causes unemployment. you say the minimum wage causes unemployment among the most vulnerable people in society that's part of the reason to oppose it. >> on the web site bleeding heart libertarian there is advocating verses caring verses

helping. >> i think this explains what is going on with people when they think about libertarians are selfish. if you are on the left you probably believe your policies are the only expression of benevolence. you probably think as libertarians disagree with your policies they must only care about your pocket books. that doesn't make sense one because we have real arguments of whey the policies don't work. advocacy is cheap. if i advocate we have a 90 percent marginal tax rate on all income over 100,000 dollars if i advocate that that doesn't cost anything. if i give money to charity. >> government should have a bigger anti government policy. >> you have the warm glow of altruism when you generate that. >> you care when you put your money where your mouth because it costs something. when you are giving 90 percent of your income away or if you have 10 percent you are not showing you care.

>> it is easy to be generous with other people's money. >> that's what politicians do. >> thank you. coming up my take on real charity. charity. ♪ upgrade to the philips norelco sensotouch 3d for the most advanced shaving experience. with gyroflex 3d technology, you can get to those hard to reach places for the ultimate shave wet or dry. guaranteed. visit philips.com/upgrade now to save $30. i'my body doesn't work the way it used to. past my prime? i'm a victim of a slowin? i don't think so. great grains protein blend. protein from natural ingredients like seeds and nuts. it helps support a healthy metabolism. great grains protein blend.

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save your money you will >> when it came to charity i used to be cheap. when my career took off i made money to speeches i decided to donate the money to charity. it changed my life. i realized i like giving money away. makes me happy. research on what makes people happy backs that up. people who give to charity whether they give to money or time they are happier. so give. it's good for us and good for them. though that depends whom you give to. >> i put on a fake beard and begged in new york city. people gave me money. they gave me money when my cardboard sign said homeless and cold. they gave me money when i had need a beer. thank you. >> when we asked givers why they gave people said things like this. >> that guy looked pretty needy i suppose.

>> i just begged for an hour. i did well. if i did this for an 8 hour day i would have made 90 bucks. 23,000 per year. tax free. >> that's the reason social workers say don't give to big r beggars. sof ten it's a scam and often you are an enabler. by giving cash you subsidize their drug or alcohol habit. by not giving you may encourage them to get real help. a few respectable charities on the street like the people who collect for the salvation army before christmas but most who beg in public are scams. >> i am homeless. will you help me out today? >> the group calling themselves united homeless is a scam. the director keeps nearly all of the money spends it on things like his weight watcher bill. >> i hear you keep most of the money. >> we are homeless people we have to, would the tables,

correct? >> but it is going to shelters. >> what are you supposed to run a nonprofit organization and not get no money? >> all of these people donating knows where the money goes. >> it's hashed to find out where your charity money really goes. we can check charity rating services like charity navigator, it's better than nothing. but the ratings aren't perfect. some charities aren't rated rating services sometimes get conned, too. i give my charity money to groups i can check out myself like a group that rehabs ex-cons and addicts. i decided they do a good job because i could receive these men. they call them men in blue ready, willing and able they clean up new york city streets. what was odd is they do it with spring in their steps. they look cheerful and they work pretty fast. i thought whoever is working with these guys has done something right, taught them to take pride in work.

so i give them money. and a couple other groups that i can watch. we shouldn't forget the people who do the most for the poor, our capitalists. honest ones not the ones who feed off government job creators do much more good for the world than politicians. do gooders working for charity. i am delighted the singer bono figured that out after spending years calling for governments to send more in foreign aid now he says the best hope for the poor, free market. >> rock star preaches capitalism. wow. sometimes i hear myself and it is not real. >> commerce enter ven neural capitalism takes more out of poverty than aid. >> politicians don't know that. many americans don't know it. it is time they learn.

bono is right. entrepreneurial capitalism takes more people out of poverty than aid ever will. that's our show see you next week. ♪ faulkner. huckabee in a live edition tonight. i will run over to the studio to see it happen. >> tonight on huckabee, another obama care delay with enrollment pushed back until the midterm elections. >> it is a political ploy by the administration to hide the additional sticker shock. and people will see through this. >> but do republicans have a better plan? congresswoman michelle bachmann joins mike huckabee tonight. plus, will your insurance get cancelled? and will your